Kentucky State Representative Nima Kulkarni joins us to discuss a number of issues facing the US & the people of Kentucky. Nima Kulkarni became the first Indian immigrant to be elected to the Kentucky House of Representatives in 2018. She currently serves on the Judiciary Economic Development and Licensing and Occupations Committee. And she was the only woman appointed through the Public Assistance Reform Taskforce. Nima has been an immigration attorney for over a decade. She is also a member of the Kentucky, Georgia, and Louisville Bar Associations. She was just sworn in for her second term.
Soniya Gokhale (00:05):
Welcome back to another episode of A Desi Woman Podcast. I am your host, Soniya Gokhale, and the voices I am seeking may have never been heard before, but their stories deserve to be told. What is a Desi woman? She's a dynamic, fearless and strong woman. She's your mother, your grandmother, your daughter, your sister. She is every one of us who's on an endless pursuit of self-empowerment and fulfillment. I am Soniya Gokhale and I am a Desi woman.
Soniya Gokhale (00:40):
Hello and welcome to another addition of A Desi Woman Podcast. I am your host Soniya Gokhale, and today we are so excited to be joined by Kentucky State representative Nima Kulkarni. Nima Kulkarni became the first Indian immigrant to be elected to the Kentucky House of Representatives in 2018. She currently serves on the Judiciary Economic Development and Licensing and Occupations Committee. And she was the only woman appointed through the Public Assistance Reform Taskforce. Nima has been an immigration attorney for over a decade. She is also a member of the Kentucky, Georgia, and Louisville Bar Associations. She was just sworn in for her second term.
Soniya Gokhale (01:32):
Nima, welcome to the show.
Nima Kulkarni (01:34):
Thanks for having me.
Soniya Gokhale (01:35):
So Nima, you and your colleagues, Representative Attica Scott, have sponsored House Bill 461, which is the Responsible Cannabis Use Bill. Also, along those lines, Representative Rachael Roberts of Campbell County recently filed House Bill 467, which she said would create new tax revenues, lead to the expungement of criminal records for people convicted for misdemeanor or marijuana charges, and help those suffering from chronic illnesses. And I wanted to offer that this is truly a significant bill that in my opinion is so desperately needed, given this country's surge in opioid and narcotic addiction.
Soniya Gokhale (02:25):
A recent New York Times article, which I will have interesting he podcast notes, indicated that more than 87,000 Americans died of drug overdoses over the 12-month period that ended in September. And this is according to preliminary federal data. That staggering number eclipses the total from any year since the opioid epidemic began in the '90s. And sadly, this surge represents an increasingly urgent public health crisis. And it seems like the COVID pandemic has exacerbated addiction, as fear and stress were rampant, job losses were multiplying and strict lock downs were still in effect.
Soniya Gokhale (03:07):
Could you tell me more about this bill and how you think it will benefit the commonwealth of Kentucky?
Nima Kulkarni (03:13):
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, this is something that is such an important issue. And we can clearly see a shift is taking place in the mentality of a lot of folks that were opposed to legalization on a recreational basis. But I think what has happened is that there's been a shift in the federal stance towards cannabis use, and so that has resulted in the allowance of states to implement whatever policies they are able to with regard to medical or recreational use. I think at this point, the majority of Americans live in some jurisdiction where cannabis can be utilized, is regulated.
Nima Kulkarni (03:54):
Kentucky is unique in that we had a cash crop for years, which was tobacco, and we lost that. So our farmers have been really, really struggling. This is something that I think should be focused on them, because they're having a really hard time generally in our agricultural industry, but also everything has gotten worse because of COVID. So on one level, it is helpful to reinvigorate our agricultural industry and economy. On the other hand, this is something that would benefit every Kentuckian. This issue and this particular legislation, I worked with a constituent on. With the constituent, it was brought to my attention because his wife suffers from a rare disease and from chronic pain. There was a big push in the last couple of years, a Republican colleague of mine introduced a medical marijuana bill, which was also advocated for by veterans, by folks that suffer from chronic conditions or chronic pain.
Nima Kulkarni (04:57):
And I think the imperative thing to realize is that this is now being looked on as a medicinal issue, as a health issue. I think that's changed people's minds a little bit as well. And some of the stereotypes and some of the negative associations that we have with drug use generally have shifted with regard to cannabis, especially given that it can be used to help people avoid opioid use and help them get over that addiction.
Nima Kulkarni (05:31):
So there are a multitude of reasons why this would be good for Kentucky, and one of the things that we also have the advantage of here is data. There are a lot of states that have implemented recreational or medical use cannabis, and they have numbers and they have impact analysis. That's something that I strove to do in this bill, is to make sure that we took the best practices and the most up-to-date practices in the crafting of this bill. So we have a lot of social equity provisions in the bill. We have exceptions for taxation, for medical use of cannabis. But really, primarily, I think the focus was centering our agricultural industry and also the communities that have been hit so hard during this war on drugs, that has been going on for decades and has, of course, disproportionately impacted Black and Latino men. That's something that they have born the brunt of. Our mass incarceration machine has been fueled by low level drug offenses.
Nima Kulkarni (06:42):
So one of the things that we have in the bill is there are a lot of expungement provisions. There is protection embedded in the bill for individuals from those communities who want to start businesses in this cannabis industry, so that we do not repeat the mistakes of states such as Colorado, for instance, that just opened up the flood gates and it resulted in a lot of outside money, a lot of venture capital and a lot of folks moving in and starting the business and shutting out local residents and local entrepreneurs. So that's something I definitely wanted to avoid, making sure, again, that the focus was on local impact, local advantage. We should be benefiting from this, and we should be helping our own small businesses grow in this rapidly expanding field. I think that is the way that we have to approach this. It cannot simply be about revenue. The revenue will come.
Nima Kulkarni (07:40):
That is something that we have clearly seen that we don't really have to worry about. But I think in the pursuit of that revenue, we cannot lose sight of the communities that have been impacted in the past and that could be impacted adversely in the future.
Soniya Gokhale (07:59):
Yeah. That is so interesting about Colorado and interesting that you're looking at what's worked and, perhaps, what hasn't in other states. To your point, then, you would advocate for a system that benefits those that would be interested in getting in the business in Kentucky, obviously with the proper licensing, versus what's happened in Colorado. Because you're right, it just seems as though big money has come in and shut out any opportunity for local business people to get involved.
Nima Kulkarni (08:29):
Right. And I've been pushing for this and involved with this issue generally for the past few years. And Louisville, Kentucky, where I live, has decriminalized the use of cannabis, so that was a local ordinance. Well, they reduced the... it's the threshold that would qualify for possession. And I think that prompted a lot of speculation, rightfully so, that, how are we going to approach this on a state level? I think, again, you saw a lot of people that you normally wouldn't think would be advocates for this issue, or for the legalization of cannabis, but were. Either it was because of the revenue piece or it was because of the medicinal properties. So you have a mix of strange bedfellows who are proponents of legalization on some level, and that's a good thing.
Nima Kulkarni (09:26):
A lot of the best policies come from bipartisan support and also just advocates form right, left, center. When you have a broad coalition, it usually results in good policy. But back when Louisville passed their cannabis ordinance, I was on the local [inaudible 00:09:46] affiliate with the councilmen who had sponsored it. They had a lady from Colorado who had followed this issue. She was a reporter and had followed this issue from the beginning in Colorado and was finding that they did not put these safeguards in place. So it was really, really difficult to go back and fix it.
Nima Kulkarni (10:10):
So from day one, I had in the back of my mind that we need to approach this very, very deliberately and make sure that the language is right, that the unintended consequences are negated and that we really have a solid cannabis use policy in Kentucky that benefits Kentuckians first.
Soniya Gokhale (10:31):
Wow. That is absolutely amazing. Well, I'm going to be watching that with certainty. I wanted to ask you about the Kentucky Maternal and Infant Health Project, which the state house Democratic caucus has put together. I was really surprised and saddened to learn that Kentucky's maternal mortality numbers are more than two times worse than the national average. And for Black women in Kentucky, not unlike the rest of the country, the number is woefully higher. You're a supporter of this initiative and also have brought focus to pregnant women and mothers who are incarcerated. Kentucky had the third largest incarceration rate for women in the world. And many Kentucky children have mothers who are behind bars.
Soniya Gokhale (11:23):
Now, that is a staggering statistic and it also makes one wonder about the conviction rate for women. That's kind of a red flag there. Something is going on that maybe shouldn't be, because... in the world. So that's a whole other question, but can you tell me more about the deficits in the current system and what you and your colleagues are proposing that will help women, children and even the unborn through this proposal. Because I think as you pointed out, children are being penalized for no reason, and unborn even, through a lack of maternal health.
Nima Kulkarni (12:00):
Yeah. I mean, this is a serious issue. It is an urgent issue and it is one that we do no discuss enough. I want to give a lot of kudos and shout outs to my colleague, Representative Lisa Willner, who really spearheaded this issue. It was born out of a conversation that we had. In Kentucky, it is a red state. It is a very, very pro-life state. And all of the conversations that we have are about how do we restrict access to safe abortions. That has dominated or legislature. We hear bill after bill year after year, but we rarely hear bills about actual welfare of mother and child. And I think that's where we started with this idea of having a slate of bills that focus on maternal and infant health and try to move the conversation away from just one aspect, which is a very divisive, very polarizing issue, to something that we can all agree is that we need to improve the outcomes of maternal and infant health.
Nima Kulkarni (13:06):
Because the statistics, as you just mentioned, are dire. They're not getting any better and exacerbating all of this is the undercurrent of the disproportionate impact, again, on Black women and women of color and low income women. So they, of course, bear the brunt of most other unintended consequences of legislation as well, discriminatory practice, et cetera. But this is a direct impact on how children are raised, the health of the child and then, of course, that will impact how they grow up and what they do as adults. So it is something that we have to look at on a wholistic level, but it has to start with providing and focusing on the health of the mother and child first.
Soniya Gokhale (13:53):
Yeah. And that is really sad, because when we think of maternal fetal medicine, we know, I mean, you're of Indian descent like myself, and we know that there's not enough of that happening in India. To think that that's the case in Kentucky. And let's call lout the hypocrisy. You're anti-abortion but then you're not going to see to the care and needs of unborn children that... or their mothers. So it doesn't add up. So really glad to see that this is occurring. It's mind blowing really.
Soniya Gokhale (14:25):
The next question I have, boy, just so much going on. I wish we had some uplifting questions here. But it's just the reality of what's occurring in this country. So police brutality is literally at the forefront of current events in the United States. I mean, it has been for some time, but it seems like right now, we cannot turn on the TV without hearing that another Black man, woman or a person of color has been killed by the police, and recently a child in Chicago. And sometimes even during the course of a routine traffic stop. Of course, we've heard of DWB, driving while Black. There's even DWI, driving while Indian. While I do think every case is different and deserves due process, I know that you and your colleague, Attica Scott, sponsored Breonna's Law. I have a lot of global listeners and they may not be aware.
Soniya Gokhale (15:20):
It was over one year ago that Louisville police shot and killed Breonna Taylor in her apartment while executing a search warrant. And though officers say they announced themselves, they did not have their body cameras on at the time, and body cameras are something that were [inaudible 00:15:37] in this country. To some degree, they protect the police as well, so it's kind of shocking that the police aren't turning them on. But more importantly, they protect the alleged perpetrators as well, so those weren't on. And witnesses dispute their rendering, the police rendering of the event. So can you tell me in general terms what you'd like to see Breonna's Law encompass? Also, is there... sort of a rhetorical question, is there a need, perhaps, radical need to revise the role of police in public safety?
Soniya Gokhale (16:13):
I think it's almost impossible to ignore the fact that the current system is not working. Even here in my hometown of Columbus, we have just been devastated to witness far too many deaths of unarmed Black men at the hands of law enforcement. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that and I have a followup question.
Nima Kulkarni (16:33):
Yeah. I mean, this is... It is such a devastating topic, and it's something that, at this point, has become normalized. It's just... it's a real tragedy that we all just take it for granted and Black people and Black families and Black men, they just expect it. It is a terrible, terrible situation that we have found ourselves in. And a lot of it stems from, or at least in part in large part, to the training of our officers. There has been an increasing shift to the militarization of our police, so rather than protecting and serving, they are more involved in the incarceration machine. Their weapons are increasing militaristic, and they're deployed in situations where there's simply no need for it. There is very little emphasis on deescalation, very little to no training on how to deal with someone who is in the throes of substance abuse or mental illness.
Nima Kulkarni (17:37):
We do ask a lot of our police officers while we continue cutting their pay and their benefits, which we have done in Kentucky. And I get that, but we also need to address the fact that they're being trained, and in Kentucky specifically, there's a high school, Manual High School, in my district. And their student journalists uncovered the training PowerPoint, the training templates and curriculum that were being used and that were suffused with White nationalist quotes, Hitler's sayings. And this is the kind of thing that they're being taught, our police are being taught. I mean, it is shocking and it was leaked by somebody who saw it and was like, "This is just wrong. Somebody needs to do something about this."
Nima Kulkarni (18:25):
So when you start out on that level, where it's already a White supremacist training, then it's very, very easy to draw the line and see every Black person as a threat and see no consequences. So we see these shooting happen, but because of qualified immunity, because of various Bill of Rights that police enjoy in every state, there's nothing we can do. So the officers were not charged in Breonna Taylor's killing. They are rarely charged. We've seen in the case of George Floyd and some others where they might be, but it is a grievous and just obvious, on footage, on film, what has happened. And unless that happens, you're not going to really get justice. And even when the body cams are on, it is almost impossible to get justice.
Nima Kulkarni (19:19):
So there should be consequences for not having your body cameras on. There should be consequences. You cannot just have a blanket immunity for police when they're doing things incorrectly, when they're doing things willfully, maliciously, when they're doing things wrong that end in the death of citizens. And that is something that we are not discussing enough. I have... there's several bills that Representative Scott and I have worked on and that we will be filing and cosponsoring in this next session as well. Her Breonna's Law would have mandated body cam use, would have had consequences for turning off body cams, would've impacted the qualified immunity statute and had protections in there, really, for protecting good police officer. I mean, we keep hearing this narrative, and I don't want to perpetuate it with the good apples and the bad apples.
Nima Kulkarni (20:14):
It is a systemic issue, it starts with training and it doesn't stop there. There's a culture of secrecy, of silence, of sticking together no matter what. So there were provisions in there for if a police officer calls out a fellow police officer as doing something incorrectly, there will not be retaliation against that police officer. So these are not anti-police measures. Police reform does not mean that you're anti-police, but that is the narrative that has been perpetuated and largely by police unions. And it's a shame. It's a shame because it's a consistent narrative we see in states all over, in cities and states all over this country and it's not helping. It's not helping the police and it's not helping the communities that they serve because there is no trust, there is no transparency. And that's because there's no accountability.
Nima Kulkarni (21:06):
So I mean, it is so crucial that we pass common sense policing reform to get back to a place where our communities feel safe and do not feel that the police themselves are a threat to their existence. That is a... just a... it's an unsustainable, untenable situation and something has to change, and we've seen a lot of measures that have been enacted in cities and states through this country but not in Kentucky. Unfortunately, Breonna's Law legislation has passed in every state that it's been introduced in except Kentucky. And you know-
Soniya Gokhale (21:46):
What? Oh my goodness.
Nima Kulkarni (21:48):
We passed a bill this past session, but it was not Representative Scott's bill, and she had worked with stakeholders and she had worked with the ACLU and she had worked with the family and a lot of different people for months, both national and local. And it was essentially co-opted by a White man and that's the bill that passed and it was not Breonna's Law. So I can't call it that. It limited some use of no-knock warrants. It did not ban no-knock warrants, except in exigent circumstances where there is imminent fear of death or injury or if it's a hostage situation. There are very specific times when you use a no-knock warrant.
Nima Kulkarni (22:36):
Again, this goes back to what we were talking about with the war on drugs. They were used to, in essence, to prevent people from flushing drugs down the toiler. So for low level drug cases, you are putting yourself, as a police officer, and the lives of civilians in danger for what? I mean, what amount of marijuana is worth that is the question. It is something that we can clearly see, the war on drugs has really been a war on Black and brown bodies, and it's failed in its intent, in its purpose to prevent people from using drugs. And I think that is something we need to remember. This has been going on for decades, and so everything that we're seeing now is just a consequence of terrible policies enacted for the wrong reasons. So I'm hopeful that at some point in Kentucky, we will have some progress towards policing reform, but it did not happen this year, unfortunately. But we will keep trying.
Soniya Gokhale (23:41):
Yeah. I wanted to ask you. Do you think it's possible, because I see some room for coming together here. Do you think that it is rather incendiary, the way that "defund the police" is also being thrown out both by the left and the right, because automatically, it makes a lot of, especially, I'd say in older generation of Republicans, like my parents, for example. Like, "Oh, that means no law enforcement. We're looking at a very unsafe community and society." And what you're stating is very different. I mean, reform is very different than defund, which implies, basically get rid off police. But in some respects, perhaps you're correct that as we know them currently, the structures in place, that they may not be compliant or make sense in today's society, because it's just causing so much civil unrest and understandably so.
Soniya Gokhale (24:39):
And the bro code, and there's female police officers as well, but that's also sort of difficult to understand, because while I do understand having your colleague's back, if you ave an issue with another officer's behavior and you know that they were just wrong and they did something that isn't complaint with what your code of honor and your code of conduct, why wouldn't you say, "Yeah, we need to call you out on that." Because it's our reputation at risk, nationally, in a statewide perspective. So I just want to see what your thoughts are on that.
Nima Kulkarni (25:17):
Yeah. I mean, I think wherever that phrase "defund the police" came from, it's the worst phrase I've heard. It is not what police reform is about and it doesn't mean anything. It really just provokes people, but it doesn't communicate what people who are advocates for police reform intend, which is not defund the police. What they mean is change policing habits instead of just throwing more money at it and throwing more money into the further militarization of it. So instead of more guns, bigger guns, more wartime equipment that police departments use on civilians, maybe look at different training, look at deescalation techniques, look at community-based policing that includes potentially having caseworkers or social workers, or healthcare professionals, mental health professionals, who are there to help police navigate a situation.
Nima Kulkarni (26:22):
It is not about just throwing more money, because the budgets keep going up and the policing becomes worse and more threatening and more intimidating, and I think that's what people mean. So defunding the police is not a term I use. I think people should stop using it because it doesn't mean anything. It is not what people intend and having the explanation conversation every single time takes away from what you're actually trying to do, which is reform the ways that we police so that communities trust law enforcement and law enforcement can do their jobs better and more safely and correctly. And it will result in fewer unnecessary death for no reasons because the training is wrong. All of that together is what reform looks like. So defunding the police is not at all what the narrative we should be perpetuating.
Soniya Gokhale (27:20):
Well, that makes a lot of sense and awesome. Now I understand this conceptual reasoning for social workers because, again, the way that the right wing media is portraying it is, what is a social worker going to do about violent crime? But to your point, and look, anyone that would sign up for that to accompany to the police, my hat goes off to them. But it's very needed because this is a cultural war. This is, as you've stated, a White supremist mentality, armed militaristically going into communities where they don't have that cultural background and understanding how impoverished communities work. And they're distinctly disparate than, perhaps, some of the affluent suburbs cops might be.
Soniya Gokhale (28:04):
But just like you wouldn't go into any other job without some kind of training about what you're going into. When I started working for my company, you understand the co culture because it's important, it's relevant to the job that you're doing. So this makes a lot of sense, because as you indicated, I mean, force isn't always the first approach. And if somebody is having an overdose or in a psychotic episode, I think it could be helpful, absolutely. Not to go in with force right away but to have that tool, that repertoire of additional tools besides just violence, and as you stated, weapons. But rather using the mental weapon of cultural understanding and an empathetic approach. Very different than what we've been taught in this country.
Nima Kulkarni (28:54):
And there's models. There are models that have been used in, for instance, Oregon and in other, I want to say Colorado as well, Arizona, where you have folks that are there, that when you get a call and it's been identified as somebody who has a history of mental illness or substance use disorder, that you have somebody qualified go with you who is there in case they're needed. Now, these are not individuals that you are going to arm. They're not going to be the ones that bust down the door or anything like that. They're not on raids, which is a whole other thing. No-knock warrants does not mean that there will not be no-knock raids, so that's a different conversation. But there are models for this type of policing and that have worked, and I think we really need to take a good look at how we can implement some of that here in our cities and states, because it's got to change. I mean, the way it is now is in any situation, you reach for the gun first, and that's not a tenable procedure.
Soniya Gokhale (29:59):
Yeah. And what I really respect is in a previous interview you indicated, look, these are my colleagues. I work with officers and I have utmost respect. They are on the front lines. They don't know if they're coming home that day. And so nobody is, and I think again, the right wing media and our previous president, Trump, certainly ramped up that narrative that, "Oh, they don't care about our law enforcement and they don't consider the sacrifices they're making." And I don't think that's what you're suggesting at all.
Nima Kulkarni (30:29):
Right. Of course not. This is something, police reform will help our police. We need to make sure we pay them enough. We need to make sure they have the benefits that they were promised, which don't exist right now in Kentucky for newer recruits. So what is the incentive for doing a job that is this difficult, this dangerous day in and day out? And so we've taken away a lot of those incentives, and they feel... and at the same time perpetuating and fueling this narrative that anybody who wants to change the system is against you, and that's not true. So there's this general tension where if you talk about changing anything, any aspect of policing, you're immediately labeled as anti-police, and that could not be further from the truth.
Nima Kulkarni (31:17):
We are trying to help reform this system because it will also help and protect officers who are putting their lives on the line. And everybody knows that and respects that, and I think that you cannot go into this on one extreme or the other. There's got to be solidarity and agreement in what the end goal is, which is making communities safer, both for law enforcement and for the residents. And I think that there are plenty of ways we could do it. It's just if the will is there, we can find a way.
Soniya Gokhale (31:54):
Got you. You're absolutely correct. We've gotten to such a black and white place in this country where people forget that there are gray areas that abound and a meeting of the minds can occur. So I completely agree with you on that.
Soniya Gokhale (32:07):
And then moving to another polarizing topic and that would be immigration. And I know you are an immigration attorney and have very, very deep knowledge about this topic. So I just wanted to ask you first about, and I know, like I said before, we do have a lot of global listeners. And so it's made international headlines that since Biden has been sworn into office, we have just seen an incredible surge of minors and people coming to our southern border. In March, it was the most migrants that had ever been encountered in at least 15 years and 172,000 people, according... and that may not be keeping abreast of thee latest statistics. This includes nearly 19,000 children and teenagers traveling without a parent, which had doubled the levels from February and the most ever in a single month.
Soniya Gokhale (33:08):
The overall surge in March, a 71% spike over February's figures illustrates the scope of this ongoing challenge that Biden faces as he seeks to enforce the border, while overhauling the nation asylum rules. And I was curious if Kentucky, I know that they're seeking states that will take in some of these unaccompanied minors, that they're really grappling with finding a place for these minors to stay. And do you know, if Kentucky going to be one of those states? You said it's a red state, so I wouldn't anticipate that. I know I don't think it's in the pipeline for Ohio, but that's my first question for you.
Nima Kulkarni (33:47):
So there's not anything really in place for us to take on anybody. We have three refugee resettlement agencies that could help in this process, but I don't think there's anything set up. We do have a Democratic governor. We have one Democratic congressman who has been a champion of immigration reform, international immigration policies. I want to very quickly just touch upon this narrative of the crisis at the border, there's a surge, there's an invasion. These are words that were used often in the previous administration, and they've been used throughout our history because we've always had a history of fear mongering when it comes to immigrants and they're criminals or coming to take your jobs. They're bringing disease, which we've, of course, saw in upticks, I mean, a huge uptick in anti-Asian violence and harassment because of COVID. And our president was saying things like Kung Flu and the China Virus, which resulted in directly. You can see a direct line drawn to the violence that resulted against the Asian community.
Nima Kulkarni (34:56):
But the migration patterns at the border are always cyclical and they're seasonal. And so that's one thing to remember, that there will be periods of time when there will be more folks trying to cross the border than others. What's happening now is you have people that are fleeing their home countries, and the three predominant countries are Hondurans, Guatemala and El Salvador. And they're fleeing gangs, they're fleeing civil unrest. And the reason you're seeing so many unaccompanied minors is because their parents would rather send them thousands of miles away to take their chances, essentially, because if they're going to stay at home, they're going to be killed if they don't join a gang. Their daughters are going to be raped and exploited and sold into sexual slavery a lot of times, and it's just an untenable situation.
Nima Kulkarni (35:51):
And so what they're fleeing is almost certain death and destruction of their families. There's no economic stability. And think about the level of desperation you would need to have to just send your child away from you thousands of miles away from you to put themselves in the hands of immigration agents in the U.S., because that is a safer place for you to be. They are asylum seekers and that is how they should be treated. They are not coming here to rob us and steal our... loot and steal and pillage the way it's been portrayed. They're not overtaking this country, and I think that needs to be how we look at it. It's a humanitarian crisis and those are the policies that we need to be implementing in response.
Nima Kulkarni (36:42):
One of the things I will say is there was a lot of optimism and hope, and there still is, among immigration practitioners because we were promised, for instance, an increase in the refugee limits. We were promised an end to these arbitrary travel bans and really just discriminatory policies that were put in place, a lot of them unconstitutional. And we're not really seeing that happen and, instead, what's happening is Biden is pursuing policies to prevent migrants from even coming to the border. So he's looking at agreements with the countries, with different countries, to prevent people from coming here and not really addressing the root cause. And that is a little bit disappointing. He has also not increased the refugee limits.
Nima Kulkarni (37:27):
So the fact that that all hasn't happened as quickly as it could is a little bit worrying for people that are practitioners in immigration law and immigration advocates, immigration reform advocates. And I think that that's something we will certainly be watching very closely. But I don't know that it's the right approach to try to stop people that are trying to survive, especially when we have a strong system of humanitarian immigration already in place, that's what we should be looking at this as, the situation as a humanitarian crisis. And I think we should be approaching it with much more empathy and compassion because, ultimately, they're going to come here and they're going to work and pay taxes and try to be good citizens. And that is something we should be embracing rather than turning away from.
Soniya Gokhale (38:19):
Well, absolutely, that clarifies some of it and certainly for global listeners that maybe the media, it's a very, very, a story that would catch a lot of eyeballs by indicating it's a crisis but without necessarily offering the predicating reasons that you've offered. So I think that's really helpful.
Soniya Gokhale (38:38):
Now, for the global listeners and those within South Asian, regarding the H1B visas, and President Biden will let the pandemic related ban on visas for certain temporary workers, he let it expire. And former President Trump, we discussed this, had issued a presidential proclamation last year blocking H1B workers and some other visa holders from entering the U.S., citing the economic crisis caused by the pandemic. Now, Biden opted out to renew it and the visa ban expired March 31. So if you could let me know, how is this going to affect the H1B visa holders? Are you already seeing it ease up, some of those restrictions and allowing a pathway for, typically I say South Asian, because we know well that a lot of them are IT workers are waiting to come to this country? I just want to hear your thoughts on that.
Nima Kulkarni (39:33):
Yeah. Yeah, and I mean this is something that they are doing well. So there are changes that have been proposed and are beginning to be implemented in the employment-based immigration system, which is crucial because that is based on U.S. employers needing work and needing workers. So it is really good that we don't have this random ban, that people will get visas again. I know that under the prior administration, one of the first things they did was, essentially, gut our state department. So you didn't have enough consular officials. You didn't have enough people there to issue visas, and they really tried to shut down that point, that first point of contact because you have to get a visa to enter this country. So the point of that administration was to shut down immigration, so you approach it from a lot of different angles and one of them is just to stop the issuance of visas, and they succeeded in a lot of ways and that includes H1B.
Nima Kulkarni (40:34):
I have client, and I know employers have been waiting, essentially, because they have filed for a worker, for instance, they've gotten approval, they've gotten through the process and now they're just stuck because the worker can't get a visa and their passport. So the predictability level for employers has gone down over the past few years, and I think the reason they're focusing, the Biden Administration is focusing on this and fixing it is because it's an economic issue. You need workers. You need the companies. You need them to stay in the U.S. and not relocate, which they could easily do in this day and age. So I think getting back to rational immigration policies, at least on that level, is something that we will be seeing more of. And this is certainly a good start. I'm sure that any other similar bans for visa issuance will lapse or be negated as well.
Nima Kulkarni (41:32):
So really, we want to open up the flow of immigration again. It wasn't that great to begin with, because it's difficult to come here, but the fact is that these are employers. They're U.S. companies that have paid thousands of dollars, have gone through a process that can take months and has, in recent years, has been taking upwards of a year just to process. And USCIS has been sued because there's no good reason for them to delay. They're just doing it because they were told internally, and this was another attempt to just shut down the system. So I'm hopeful that all of that will change. I know as a practitioner, I've seen things speed up. I've seen people be able to get visas much quicker and much more smoothly, so we remain hopeful that that trajectory will continue.
Soniya Gokhale (42:26):
Well, that is wonderful. We're at least ending on a positive, upbeat note here. And we cannot thank you enough Kentucky State Representative Nima Kulkarni. It is just always such a pleasure and just so grateful and honored to know you. Thank you so much.
Nima Kulkarni (42:43):
Absolutely. It's always a pleasure talk to you.
Soniya Gokhale (42:45):
Thank you, Nima.